in such a way that things end up worse for you?

IANAL. This is what they want you to think, "just do this and it'll be better for you". It might be a short term hassle waiting for the drug dog, or being arrested while they conduct their investigation. But long term it's the court that matters. And the court will throw out anything obtained illegally or the cops do illegally.

Cops are not there to help you, they just want to find someone to pin a crime on. The only one that will help you is your lawyer. Stfu. Don't talk to the police.

what is the best way to refuse to do this?

try to be as white as possible.

Just the act of refusing makes the act of seizing your phone legal or not. If you legally give them your phone by your own will, they are able to use all evidence they find in the courts. If you deny to give them your phone, and they seize it anyways and access it you have a valid path to throw the evidence they discover out as an illegal search and seizure of your property. I'm not a lawyer but that is the general thought process on denying them access to your property.

Edit: Just want to say this mostly pretains to United States law and similar legal structures. This advice is not applicable everywhere and you should research your countries rights and legal protections.

"what's a phone?"

"I don't know why my fingerprint isn't working" (biometrics are disabled)

"I don't remember my passcode" (it's a pattern input field)

"The guy at the phone place changed it for me"

"It's never really worked right."

"There's no Google on it tho." (What does this even mean?)

"Who do you need to call anyway?"

"Can't you just use your own phone?"

Just act like the dumbest creature on earth.

I gotchu: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uqo5RYOp4nQ

It depends a lot on your location on the planet.

Depends on local laws, but if the cops ability to seize your property without warrant isn't protected by local laws:

Ask if they have a warrant and if they don't then take your phone oout and power it down, then put it back in your pocket and tell them they can direct complaints to your lawyer because you're not handing over any devices.

If they seize it without a warrant then you can sue the department, although if they have reasonable suspicion then you won't have much luck.

Disable biometrics

Android: look up “lockdown mode”

iOS: hold volume down + power, or press power 5 times fast.

I imagine something like “I do not consent to a search nor seizure of any of my property. May I reach into my pocket so I may place my phone in plain view? If my property is going to be seized even against my will, I still want to ensure everyone’s safety.”

Then repeat the no consent line as you place your phone on your dashboard or whatever.

I imagine this means your lawyer will have body cam footage of the double nonconsent and the judge will see you were willing to comply even with potentially unlawful orders so the justice system could sort it out in court instead of someone trying to fight it out on the street.

Do you have a warrant? Then sorry officer I will not hand it over per my fifth amendment right.

From there just say you’re not saying anything else without a lawyer and then just keep demanding a lawyer.

Yes. The cop will get pissed off. But better him mad then you spending years trying to get out of a bogus charge because of some bullshit they found on your phone. Better to be annoying and demand to speak to a lawyer.

Five times wanted to set off an emergency service call and sound the alarm 🚨 YMMV (Pixel 7)

Also on Android press the power button and volume up button simultaneously, and then press lockdown.

That was like the biggest thing i learned in computer class, that i already knew in 2002 or so. Later myspace became a thing, and everyone had a myspace name. Then facebook and some people used their real name. Then facebook asked you for your phone number, and i thought: well, that's silly, who in their right mind would do that. Turns out the answer is everyone.

Remember when we used to say, "Don't put your name on the internet?" And now it's everywhere?

Mine isn't, go ahead and look it up. You won't find my name anywhere in the internet.

Here it is encrypted so only you can read it: >!John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt!<

Yeah I remember the early days of the internet when no one used their real name and we had relationships with dozens of people who we had no idea where they lived and what their real names were.

It seems quaint, but I kinda liked it like that.

I don't see what the difference would be in 10 years.

I don't think 90% of people, especially "young people" would avoid doing this already. It's already a major awareness/compliance issue, and not at all a "no shit sherlock" moment.

But what did you have in mind that will be different in 10 years? Paricularly for young people.

I bet I dossed my pseudonym like not even a day after creating 🤣

Oh sorry instead we’re going to get fascism

At some point, someone is going to figure out George Orwell was actually a time traveler, and he tried to fix things with books. He had to deliver the message that way because if he just shouted in the streets the things that were going to happen, he'd been written off as a madman. Change a few details here and there... and then sell it as "fiction"...

I have been to a few spots over there and it is crazy how different culturally it is. Nothing is away from politics and cops get called fot eeeeverything.

Where do you live?

Or just know how to enable lockdown mode. On iOS that’s 5 rapid clicks of the power button, screen on or off, and it vibrates to let you know you got it without looking. Dunno what it might be for android, or if it varies by model.

It ends up like a newly rebooted phone; requires a typed passcode. It also provides quick links to medical ID info and the sos emergency call thing. It may, if you have an ID set up, also have a link to that, but I don’t have that configured so not super sure.

If you reboot your phone, the first unlock can't use biometrics

Serious question, what gets you into these situations that you need to safeguard your belongings so hard? I'm asking to understand not to make a shit post thread.

Edit: 13 hours later...not a single one of you?

This is why I set up tasker to lockdown my phone under certain conditions, such as: getting disconnected from Bluetooth (like when my phone is separated from me and my watch, my headphones, or the car), getting disconnected from WiFi (like when it's taken from where it's supposed to be), getting a slight jolt from the accelerometer (like getting thrown to the ground or even just a swift tap). My phone may get locked down a bunch during day to day stuff, but at least I know it will lockdown automatically when it matters.

*counsel you. I'm picturing a police officer comforting a suspect who's sobbing with a hand on their shoulder haha.

Better yet: don't use biometrics. My phone has face recognition for unlocking, but I better stick to a PIN/PASSWORD.

Just hold Side button and one of the volume buttons to deactivate biometrics

If you have an iPhone, holding down either volume button and the side button will bring out the Medical ID, slide to power off, Emergency SOS screen. This will also disable FaceID. Password will be required to access the phone now.

Double check this in the state or country you're in. I recall something from a few years ago where the police could force you to give a swipe pattern and maybe pin since these items are not covered in the same way that a password is.

More than Google does

Brazil? I do miss being able to leave home bringing only my phone because my ID and cards are all there

Does your phone need to be unlocked to show that qr code?

So the answer is to not visit the US then.

For Android:

• Open Settings
• Search for "Lockdown"
• Select "Show Lockdown option" from the results, or the result that most resembles that.
• Enter your pin if required.
• Tap the associated slider to enable Show lockdown option

&nbsp;

Now when you hold your power button, you get a "lockdown" option that disables biometrics and forces you to enter your passcode for the next unlock.

Particularly useful for me, as I have my phone set up to always be unlocked if my watch is close enough (maybe stupid of me), but I can force lock it at any time.

Or you could just hit restart on the phone and at least on android it asks for the code first before enabling finger print or face ID.

On iOS 18 there is a power button in the top right of control center (you have to hold it)

A lot of countries have disabled their 2G networks (and 3G in some cases). I think 4G and 5G have a more secure signaling protocol than SS7?

You have to suspect, I fear. At least, those exploiting tools are very expensive. So there is this little roadblock. On the other hand, a lot of this money goes to an Isreal based company…

Most of the time you can go to the library and print it out there. My insurance company (Geico) will still send cards if i request them.

library will let you print a page for a dime

When my insurance carrier stopped mailing cards they added a request to send the updated cards, pain in the ass but pretty sure most insurers are doing that now to cut corners because they aren't legally required to send them.

How exactly is an individual supposed to determine which cops will be good and which will abuse their power?

Just as we can't make a general statement that all cops are definitely bad, you can't make a general statement that all cops in any particular country or town will be good.

From a basic risk management viewpoint, it doesn't make sense for anyone to accept the risk that any given cop won't abuse their position, even if we were willing to accept that very few would actually do so.

Cops have an extremely privileged status in society and the amount of damage that a bad one can do to an individual - on purpose or even by accident - is incalculable, including setting up an innocent person for capital punishment as we're seeing unfold in Missouri right now.

Man, fuck that.

It's none of your business what's on our phones, period.

You want access? Go through due process.

The very fact that you led off with "you're fine if you have nothing to hide" makes you the problem, you personally, not anyone else around you, you.

Doesn't matter what country you're in at all. Doesn't even matter what the law says in this case, because crappy laws exist.

That kind of thinking is exactly why people don't trust cops.

I can understand that in some countries cops can be seen as criminals (and are behaving like criminals), but I don’t think a generality should be made. Just like a generality shouldn’t be made about people from an origin all doing the same bad thing.

ACAB, and you don't get to compare your chosen profession to where people were born or the colour of their skin, nor try to claim victim points by pretending you are systemically oppressed and discriminated against in the same way we are (though your trying to does go to strengthen my first point).

Fuck you, pig.

Would it be fair to summarize your point as "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear"?

Cops are garbage

ACAB piggly wiggly

I’m a cop and I can tell you that, at least in my country, you’d have no reason to not unlock your phone if you haven’t done anything.

I can understand that in some countries cops can be seen as criminals (and are behaving like criminals), but I don’t think a generality should be made.

It sounds like you’re saying that you would assume that someone had done something illegal if they refused to unlock their phone for you. It’s a bit ironic that you then immediately say that people shouldn’t generalize about cops behaving as criminals.

I don’t let my friends go through my phone. Cop or not, why would I let a stranger?

I cannot know with 100% certainty that someone hasn't planted false evidence on my phone, so I absolutely have reason turn my phone off before surrendering it (if I'm forced to surrender it).

If cops are certain I've committed a crime, why do they need to rely on methods outside the law (edit: I mean outside of legally compelling me via a warrant or similar) to get me? No, I'm never going to consent to any sort of search without a warrant. If you think I have something to hide, why are you afraid to get a warrant?

I don't know why your getting downvoted and have replies with ACAB...

Keep in mind I come at this from an American perspective.

I do have to disagree with the first paragraph. You do not need to access to or to search my phone to perform your job. If the phone becomes part of a criminal investigation then ideally a warrant would be put out by a judge and a Computer Forensics team would take it from there.

At least in the USA, the bad perception of cops is not just because of their apparent lack of accountability and ability to get away with murder, but also how expansive the scope of their duties are. So much authority intrusted in one person clearly seems to go to their heads more often than not here.

I understand in many European countries the scope of a cops duties is much more restricted. I know Britian doesn't even provide their law enforcement with firearms.

In a recent study it was found that around 2/5 of phones held by police had signs of tampering, including when they are supposed to get a warrant. If you want to know more Google, "40% police study " and it will probably show up on the first page.

🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽

Fuck you

“It’s rude to not let me invade your privacy. If you have nothing to hide just let me see your phone!” Fuck off, pig

I'm going to preface this by saying the whole Americanised ACAB stuff is silly. Not everywhere has a shitty, militarised police force like theirs. Where I am, my experience with the police has been pretty positive, even with me being an immigrant with darker skin.

But man, no.

If police want your data, they can ask you politely, and if you say no, then that should be it. End of discussion. People have the right to privacy.

Maybe the officer wouldn't do anything nefarious. But then again, maybe they will. You have no way of knowing what type of person that officer is. Even good police forces have plenty of shitty employees, so police powers should be limited to avoid them just doing whatever they want.

If there's a genuine reason to have your data, say you're implicated in some criminal investigation, then they can go through the proper channels and get a warrant.

Police absolutely should not have the power to just do whatever they like. If you let them, have that, it leads to shitty police forces like they have in the US and elsewhere.