Capitalism is the root of evil

So please try to study something first about communism in Eastern Europe before you start to celebrare this regime.

If anyone has a sincere interests in studying this in detail its other communists, perhaps you should do more study on modern conceptions of communism (China) and the informative post made by Cowbee.

While the Soviet Economy did begin to stagnate towards the end of the Soviet Union's lifespan, it did not collapse due to economic failure. The economic collapse happened right after the USSR was dissolved, leading to spikes in poverty, food insecurity, a loss in healthcare, and an estimated 7 million excess deaths. The reasons the USSR collapsed were more nuanced than simply saying the Soviet Model "didn't work," because fundamentally it did, and it worked quite well for most of its existence. Stephen Gowens' essay Do Publicly Owned, Planned Economies Work? goes into detail on what legitimately worked quite well, and where it started to falter and eventually was dissolved from the top-down.

The reasons included the following problems:

1. Liberal reforms that gave the Bourgeoisie power over key industries (such reforms were actually a major desire of the 1968 Dubcek platform, in even greater quantity, hence why it was shut down by neighboring Warsaw Pact countries)
2. A firm dedication to planning by hand even as the economy grew more complex and computers too slow to be adapted to the planning mechanisms
3. A huge portion of resources were spent on maintaining millitary parity with the US in order to dissuade US invasion
4. 80% of the combat done in World War II was on the Eastern Front, and 20 million Soviets lost their lives, with no real economic support from the West in rebuilding despite taking the largest cost of war
5. An enclosed, heavily sanctioned economy relied on internal resource gathering, closed off from the world market

Countries like the PRC have taken to heart what happened in the USSR. As an example, the PRC shifted to a more classically Marxist economy, focusing on public ownership of only the large firms and key industries, and relying on markets to develop out of private ownership. This keeps them in touch with the global economy without giving the bourgeoisie control of key industries, and thus the bourgeoisie has no power over the economy or the state.

Moreover, as a consequence of collapse, polling from Pew Researcg suggests 77% of Czechs believe they are worse off economically than under Socialism. This is generally true in various degrees across the other post-Soviet states, had the USSR not been dissolved, it would have likely continued to improve conditions at a faster rate than modern Capitalism, and the misery it has brought.

Fun fact: the first capitalist ventures were colonial missions (Spanish missions to the Americas). The first publicly traded corporation was the Dutch East Indian company.

Though I'd say the root of all evil is imperialism or the desire of some to spread and maximize their control and wealth.

I think it's more trying to say that Capitalism is the root of modern systemic evil. Capitalism grew from feudalism, and feudalism grew from what came before it, each class society grew the next, but today Capitalism is the form that is hegemonic, specifically Imperialism.

Also, I disagree about hierarchy being the issue, I'd say class is. Interclass hierarchy is usually oppressive, but intra-class hierarchy isn't necessarily a bad thing, and is often a necessary component of specialization, management, and administration in increasingly complex production. I'm a Marxist-Leninist though, so that guides my views.

Both extremes on display those examples, seems like they both end up in the same place in the end. Maybe it would be reasonable to use any system that is a mix of things, instead of focusing on pure capitalism or communism.

Either build something better or shutup, I say. Unless you're a big fan of Tsarist Russia

Both Capitalism and Socialism have room for public and private ownership, the difference is which sector controls the state, large firms, and key industries. The Nordic Countries are dominated by Private Capital, ie it is Capitalist, while the PRC is dominated by Public Ownership, ie it is Socialist.

Communism limits the personal freedoms of the bourgeoisie. All Communism is, is a more developed and global form of Socialism, where the small firms that once were private have all grown into the public sector or collapsed.

Tell me you've never read anything about communism that wasn't written by anti-communists without telling me you've never read anything about communism that wasn't written by anti-communists.

Limits personal freedoms only for the owning class. If you're not a landlord or ceo you have nothing to fear.

All this things sound great, we just need humanity to not be shitty to each other.

I mean, propaganda is technically a type of meme, isn't it?

Since when are memes just about humor?

Thank god I'm not the only one.

Don't got to political Memes then. Some of the worst propaganda slop there

You're not going to overthrow fascism, white supremacy or capitalism with random acts of adventurism. If you're not more organized than your enemy they will crush you.

Communism is to be desired, though it's understandable that you'd be opposed if your major exposure is through western education and western documentaries.

What's your evidence for your the root of evil is that some people just have an "evil" gene theory?

Communism gives no more anonymity or room for corruption than Capitalism or Socialism. Further, Communism is Socialism developed to a higher stage. Socialism itself is an economy where public ownership is the principle aspect, ie has control over large firms, key industries, and the state. All Socialism is democratic, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say, I don't see why you say it's more scaleable when Communism is a global and fully publicly owned version of Socialism, ie Socialism developed to its natural higher stages. Even further, the government is made up of the people, assuming proper measures are in place, you can't give more power to private interests and keep it democratic.

What gives us these 80 year cycles in the west where everything turns to shit?

This doesn't solve the systemic pressures within Capitalism, nor does it describe how to get from A to B. Your idea still depends on your one firm outcompeting other firms, which is difficult in saturated markets.

I recommend you look into Marxist theory, I have some recommendations I can make.

You're on the wrong instance then. The lemmy.ml instance is very heavily political, even in political communities.

Found the capitalist!

Communism is absolutely better 👍

I agree, capitalism is just one way greed manifests itself. Greedy opportunists figure out how to exploit any system. The people douchevoting you are binary meme-brains who think you're saying capitalism is the greatest thing since Betty White because you didn't explicitly say the opposite.

So maybe we should switch to systems that represent everyone equally, with equal and fair democratic representation, so that when evil inevitably arises it can be squashed.

Reddit is state controlled media. You're seeing weird ideas outside of it because you're allowed to now

Capitalism is a form of extremism

For your first question, Lemmy is developed by Communists, and is an answer to the Capitalist failings of Reddit. Simple as that.

For the Capitalism bit, you're waving away the fact thay the Nordic countries are Imperialist. They shift all of the suffering and worst exploitation to the Global South. At the same time, worker's rights and safety nets are being eroded, because Capital controls the state, not the people.

Communism is no more extreme than capitalism. They just stand in opposition of one another. The red scare is back I guess.

Its actually pretty smart if you think about it. Some flowers bloom at the end of their lifecycle. Nazism is at the end of capitalism's lifecycle. But if you only hack off the visible parts of the flower, it will come back next year. So the flower is capitalism and the soviet union only managed to hack off the upper part, nazi germany, while the lower part, the capitalist empire was still there. Now 80 years later, the flower blooms again, this time as usa, and the picture suggests we rip it out at the root by destroying the whole system, instead of just hacking it off by, like, occupying washington or something.

Many places have, like the PRC, Vietnam, DPRK, Laos, Cuba, and former USSR.

The Hammer & Sickle is the symbol of Marxism-Leninism, not just the USSR. There are several Marxist-Leninist states to this day, including the PRC, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, and the DPRK.

As if intensity is what makes ideologies bad. 🙄

First, a societal organization outside the Western norm has no bearing on if it will be successful or not. The "middle" has no superior intrinsic characteristics.

Second, we know Socialism works, the PRC is now becoming the de facto world power as the US falls, all while providing dramatic improvements for its people and increasing levels of satisfaction.

What, specifically, doesn't work?

What's extremism?

A river floods every year. If someone builds a house next to it and the river takes it, is the river evil, or is the person suffering the consequences of their own ignorance? The consequences of capitalism are predictable and inevitable. The behaviour of a dollar is almost as predictable as that of an electron. Why do people pretend like we don't know what is going to happen?

The caricature in your head of Socialism in practice does not exist. I recommend you read Anticommunism & Wonderland, which despite its title does show a nuanced view of the Soviet Union.

Are you bourgeois? Under communism the owning class has no freedom

That's like saying

"Nazism is a system and just that, it has no moral, therefore cannot be evil."

or

"The Transatlantic slave trade is a system and just that, it has no moral, therefore cannot be evil."

What are you talking about? Systems are created by people; they don't just pop into existence.

Power not Greed. People don't hoard wealth just to look at a pile of coins, they do it to control other people

🫡

The USSR did fairly well until liberalizing part of its economy, as well as struggling to recover from the immense cost it paid to win the Eastern Front and beat the Nazis while under the oppression of the Cold War.

The Marxist-Leninist tradition is still carried forward by many states, including the PRC, which is on its way to surpass the US as world superpower.

If we accepted the arguments that humans are selfish, then it's an argument for communism and not against it. We should be creating social systems that encourage socially positive behavior and inhibit socially destructive behavior. Capitalism is like taking a drunk to a happy hour at the bar. The fact that people keep repeating this trope shows complete and utter lack of critical thinking on their part.

Why?

If someone is selfish and global working class and class conscious, they'll work towards communism for their own selfish gain.

I think it can work because of the same

I know that selfishness will make atleast some try to do any evil for a profit.
Capitalism is highly risky then.

Better to highly regulate it or try to develop out of it, right?

if we have learnt one thing from the past it is that hammer and sickle countries are in dire need of agriculture products.

capitalism is the system whereby greed is raised above all other human impulses though. in most other systems, sure, people can be greedy, but they aren't rewarded for it, and people who aren't naturally greedy don't get pushed and trained to be greedy as the highest aspiration.

Capitalism rewards greed, thus perpetuating it and entrenching it. So capitalism is the root of our greed epidemic

Human aspects like greed are not intrinsic to humanity, but created by the material conditions and mechanisms surrounding them, and are thus malleable and expressed in lower or greater degrees in different systems. Capitalism in particular expresses greed as its entire foundation is the relentless accumulation of profit and exansion of markets and commodification for the purposes of private wealth.

lol, so stupid

Technically correct because greed is the cause of capitalism. But don't be fooled into thinking there's a long term, greed restrained capitalism that is going to work out for us; wealth is power. With sufficient wealth, a man can raise an army.

As soon as you allow him to accumulate it, you raise the possibility that he will buy your politicians and corrupt your citizens through amplifying his messages to make society ever greedier in his image. He will hire people to make unlawful works, and pay the fines and dodge the court room.

When you resist this corruption, they respond with fascism.

The Russian Federation ceased being Socialist in the early 90s, the Hammer and Sickle is a symbol of Marxism. Not sure what your point is.

capitalism breeds fascism. I support capitalism

Social democracy is an extreme ideology

Social Democracy retains Private Ownership as the principle aspect of its economy, ergo its still Capitalist. Fascism isn't distinct from Capitalism, but Capitalism in certain circumstances, ie when it needs to put on a mask and brutally protect itself from its own decay, before taking off the mask and pretending it's something else, ie it keeps Capitalism's record "clean."

Further, being radical does not equal being wrong. Distance from the status quo does not mean it is not correct, we need to judge legitimately the merits of Socialism/Communism and not just say they are too radical.

nor is any extreme ideology. Social direct democracy

Whoah hold it right there, that's democratic extremism! You're taking away all the representatives of bribery and extortion. Best to leave a few weak points, for balance.

Of course something simillar to Switzerland's model.