c/libertyhub@lemmy.blahaj.zone is full of transphobic trolls

The community c/libertyhub@lemmy.blahaj.zone states in the sidebar it's a community for leftists and post leftists, but if you actually look at the posts the mods are making, it's almost nothing but trolling and telling people not to vote in the general election.

This rhetoric is especially dangerous to trans people, who this instance is supposed to be a safe space for, and West Bank Palestinians. If the USA elects a fascist president, there is guaranteed to be multiple genocides of society's most vulnerable groups, in addition to what the US is already doing in Gaza.

The mods on Liberty Hub openly troll their users and ban people for advocating left wing or harm reducing positions. The only action that is allowed on the sub is advocating political inaction in the face of genocide, taking a centrist position with regards to open fascism.

This community has absolutely no place on Blahaj Zone and should be removed by the admins.

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I'm not going to remove a community for pushing back against a system that forces them to vote for genocide.
I don't think that not voting is the answer, but I also don't think that me telling people they're not allowed to feel differently is the answer. The majority of the people in that community will be forced to live with the consequences of their votes. They will be directly targeted by Trump. And if they still feel that pushing back against genocide in Palestine is more important than the consequences of Trump on their very own personal safety, I'm not going to stand in the way of that.
This isn't outside trolls and agitators. This is a community of folk, directly in the line of fire, choosing to stand there for a cause they see as important. As long as their intentions are genuine (which I believe they are), It's not my place to tell them that they're not allowed to take that stand.
That being said, I am going to reach out to the staff there, and address the insults and the like being thrown at other users. It's against both the community rules, and against the Blahaj Zone Community Guidelines.
- There's a difference between taking a stand that will harm themselves, and taking a stand that will harm everyone else as well while preventing others from taking a stand against them.
  
  There is no harm free choice here.
  
  Pledging to vote for someone despite the genocide means they have no incentive to stop the genocide. That is the more dangerous stance.
  Ballots are secret. There is no way to prove how you voted once the ballot is sumbmitted. The optimal play is to make a lot of noise saying that your vote is contingent on an end to the genocide, even if that isn't how you actually vote on election day.
  Pledging to vote for biden at this point is encouragement. Why would he do anything about palestine if he knows you're going to vote for him anyway?
  
  Assume people make rational choices. When a president is elected, especially for a 2nd term, then they have little to no incentive to actually listen to the voters. It fucking sucks, but that is how the system works. Election time is literally the only time we can push meaningful change.
  When election day comes, I think people we rationally understand that Trump is a greater danger both to Palastine and to the trans community and vote accordingly.
  If I agree that there is no value in not voting, then I feel you should be able to recognize that there is value in SAYING you are not voting. To me, it's far more likely that the people in that community know this fact instead of somehow not recognizing the danger of Trump.
- I fail to see how that community is pushing back against any system by repeating the same tired talking points that dissuade people from voting.
  
  And that's s perfectly reasonable perspective. But it's not a reason to moderate or ban the community...
- Counterpoint - this is absolutely a community of outside agitators and it was very obvious from day 1.

Have you tried blocking the community instead of interacting with it? There’s plenty of communities I block because I think they’re dumb and annoying, or because the moderation team is a train wreck.
“It’s transphobic to think Joe Biden is a genocide enabling asshole because that means you support not voting for him which means you support Trump getting elected which means you support transphobic policies and this should be banned from Blahaj” is a series of assumptions built on assumptions, most of which are bad faith and work backwards from wanting the community banned. Demanding a trans admin ban them for transphobia when what you want them banned for is bad politics is tasteless at best, and comes off as manipulative.
Before anyone gets a bug up their ass about if I vote blue enough, I live in a large city in California. We are more likely to see the sun explode than for my elector to vote for anyone other than a Democrat, which I think is ultimately the least bad option that is likely to happen between now and November (but is still a bad system because we need ranked choice).
- Man, why didn't I think of preventing political propaganda from reaching people by ignoring it. What a good idea!
  
  Memes from someone whose takes you don’t like isn’t the same thing as propaganda and it certainly doesn’t make the community transphobic. If you can’t live with seeing it, block it. There is real, honest to god, paid for with billionaire cash political propaganda targeting trans people out there, and that community ain’t it.
- Blocking communities and users only makes bad actors more powerful because there are fewer voices pushing back against them. It's the internet version of sticking your head in the sand because you don't have the courage to confront evil.
  
  Someone isn’t evil because they think Joe Biden is enabling genocide and that he sucks, Jesus. Y’all need to learn to be okay with other queer people not having your exact politics. Aim that kind of rhetoric and energy at people that are actually bigoted instead of just tearing down other queer people.

After going on over for a look around I agree with you.
Not voting is horrendously dangerous for the most vulnerable groups especially in this upcoming election.

I've been in that community pushing to reluctantly vote for Biden and I haven't been banned! In fact, I don't see a ton of "don't vote for Biden" stuff, mostly just "Biden sucks" stuff. Perhaps you're dividing things into sides to aggressively.
I agree they're a little trolly and definitely inflame, which I don't like, but calling it transphobic requires quite the leap of logic.
- Here's a post where that mod actually advocates voting for Biden. He also hates Biden and levies plenty of valid criticisms. These are not mutually exclusive.

Tbh I think the guy drank the flavor aid. I saw how that dude started out and iirc he started with more reasonable political stances; but he's gone way off the rails. If he's who I think he is, then I feel kinda feel bad for him. He wasn't always like this.
- Yeah, I've personally had them tagged as "leftist trump bot" since interacting with that sub once and getting banned immediately. I've since seen them post sane stuff elsewhere on the fediverse and was surprised as within that sub they seem completely unhinged.
- I'd had a few conversations with them before they came to blahaj, and I agree that I feel bad seeing how it's gone since then. I miss their attitude from earlier, in that sort of "I hope my friend is okay but I'm worried we no longer have a relationship where I can help" kind of vibe

Meanwhile, OP is making some pretty gross transphobic jokes about suicide on .world
https://lemmy.ca/comment/10095468
It's disgusting. You're telling people that if they're opposing a genocide, they might as well kill themselves.
- Making fun of people who try to shame me into killing myself is my coping mechanism for being shamed and told to kill myself. I agree, it's gross that such a situation has even arisen. But it's not like ignoring transphobia is going to help.
  
  You're the one making transphobic jokes about suicide in that thread
- Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit
  
  Neither subtext nor empathy are yours

No lmao

Oh yeah, that community is horrible. I saw a ton of their posts popping up on my feed and made a comment on there before blocking it (some question about the heavy advocacy for voter apathy) and was immediately banned.

@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone I've been banned from Liberty Hub as of 9 hours ago. My only interaction with the sub lately is this post here and the comment I left in the linked thread. The ban reason is "off topic", which is not a Liberty Hub or Blahaj rule. 9 hours ago is also when the thread I linked seems to have been deleted by the Liberty Hub mods, and was replaced with another thread with a near-identical image and near-identical title. The only motivation for the ban I can see is for criticising the community, and the only motivation for deleting the post I can see is to hide evidence of the behaviour I describe in the post.
Liberty Hub's 8th rule is that open discussion should be encouraged and bad faith attacks should be prevented. I believe a moderator is breaking their own community's rules in their moderator actions, while banning users for reasons that have nothing to do with the community rules. If Liberty Hub's stated rules have nothing to do with the actions taken by moderators, then there can be no oversight from the admin team to prevent instance rule violations. I believe the guideline of empathy has already been broken, and has been broken on an ongoing basis for months. The moderators of this community have gone rogue. They are not respecting the instance or even their own community's values.

I got banned there for staying I thought I was on hexbear
- They're fascists with a leftist coat of paint, and anyone who thinks they should be allowed to propagate their views is complicit in their efforts to maximize harm.

Eh, maybe not ban, but like, remind them that this a community space, and that they should moderate and remove commenters/posters who are being actively toxic or harassing people for disagreeing.
Like, I’m not fan of Biden or the neoliberal order, but what is going on there isn’t doing anything constructive. Even if they don’t intend it, the way that space is moderated, it’s a potential harbor for bad faith trolls.
It is all spite, no solutions or discussions of means of action. Just “we sure do hate this particular side of the two ruling parties.”
- You assume they are operating in good faith. This is the same harm maximization formula the_Donald used to spew hate on reddit for so long. You cannot just give bad actors infinite chances to figure out how you can be soothed and manipulated. You need to cut the cancer out while it is young cancer.

The community is not made up of transphobes or accelerationists so there is no problem. I don't post or comment there because I don't see the point in taking the time to write or make something for an echo chamber that will just remove my comment or post. But just because I don't agree with every take in that community doesn't mean it doesn't have value.

Yes, this place was very obviously a right wing propaganda community from the first day I saw it. It's amazing so many otherwise smart leftists and progressives continue to fall for this mindless contrarian nonsense. These are trolls trying to divide us, and it's incredibly obvious to me.

I appreciate the recommendation, that sounds like a fun community!

Not voting is only dangerous if you assume the non-voters would otherwise side with your favored candidate.
- Favored is a strong word here imho. Very few people want Biden, it seems to me. Also, in a leftist community, I'd hope the choice between a neoliberal and a fascist would be obvious. I hate neoliberalism as much as the next socialist, but I shudder at the thought of the impact Trump with project 2025 in hand would have on the world.

Out of curiosity, how do you reconcile being lgbtq+ friendly, and supporting Gaza who still execute gay people? Seems like chickens for chick-fil-a.
- Chick-fil-a employees aren't being bombed and starved to death by an apartheid state. I support the right of chick-fil-a employees to live, and if they were being killed by the state I would be protesting on their behalf just as I protest the genocide in Gaza.
  Most Gazans are below the age of 18 and couldn't even vote in the last election. They are not to blame for Hamas' beliefs or actions. They're children, and they need to be protected.
  (And it'll be a lot easier to pressure Biden to stop supplying arms to kill them than Trump)
  
  Gaza is 98% Sunni Muslim. Israel is 73.6% Jewish, 21.1% Arab, and 5.3% other. If Israel is an apartheid state, I got bad news about Gaza.
  And for the record, Hamas started the current war, and has continued to bomb and starve civilians.
  70% of Gaza are "satisfied" with Hamas. Just because they cant vote doesnt mean they wouldnt vore for Hamas.

78 comments