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InitialsDiceBearhttps://github.com/dicebear/dicebearhttps://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/„Initials” (https://github.com/dicebear/dicebear) by „DiceBear”, licensed under „CC0 1.0” (https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/)P
Posts
517
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1321
Joined
7 mo. ago

  • I suspect that this is such a cavalcade of bullshit of different types that he's deliberately baiting people to become unable to even begin to come to grips with everything that is wrong with it. And thus, in internet-troll-logic, it means he wins.

  • Yeah, true that.

    On the other hand, the AI tool is presumably pulling from the exact same primary sources which may or may not show a full picture of what happened...

  • "Our"

    lmao

  • Like?

    Resisting arrest, I think. "You're under arrest, come out of the house" "No" is literally what it means to resist arrest (without violence). Coming out later doesn't absolve you of it any more than slowing down absolves you for speeding earlier.

    And how does this support your argument? She was talked out of the protection of her home.

    Have you been checked for short term memory loss? It's like you forgot the first part of my sentence by the time you got to the second part. Staying in the protection of her home would have just gotten her home busted up once they secured the warrant.

    IDK, dude. I was just trying to send you a video to help you understand, but you're clearly not into it. I remember now why I stopped talking to you back before when we talked about this.

  • Honestly, the right answer at this point in technology is just to let the bodycam be the police report.

    We used to need police reports so there was a solid written record of what (supposedly) happened. It was a pain in the ass writing them, but it had to happen. But now, what's the point? Surely, the answer is to let cops write a three-sentence report about the broadest possible strokes of who was involved and what was the final outcome, and then "* see bodycam" for the details. Then, if it comes to some sort of proceeding where people have to dig into the nitty gritty details of what happened, they just pull the video, and see for themselves.

    Everyone wins. Right?

  • There are a couple more I happened to run across, this one just seemed really on the nose about what generally will happen if you try to hide in your house. It reminded me of our conversation.

    In another of them, the girl had a warrant and tried to refuse to come out of her house so she wouldn't have to stay in jail for the weekend. Long story short, she got arrested and more charges. That one, they didn't have the ability to enter the house without a warrant, they just had the arrest warrant for her specifically, so they were waiting for a judge to sign off on a warrant but were able to talk her into coming out before the warrant came through.

    There was another where the guy was hiding in a closet inside the house. They didn't have a warrant, but they did have probable cause to enter the place, so long story short he got arrested even with the hiding in the closet part.

    Your summary of how it works, way way above, was actually pretty accurate (warrant or emergency being the two main exceptions to the general rule that they can't come in your house). The thing is that about 90% of the situations where they're coming to the door and are planning to arrest you will fall into one or the other of those categories. You gain nothing in the "they just want to talk" situation, and you gain nothing in the "they want to arrest you" situation. These are just some examples of people who tried to solve the problem by not interacting physically with the cops, and then it not working to accomplish anything positive.

    (Again, this is only for local law enforcement, and only if they are generally aboveboard. For ICE or federal law enforcement, or if you're not sure, I think not answering the door is probably smarter at this point.)

  • I happened to run across a video which is highly pertinent to this situation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC2h2bSZJao

    That's pretty much what you can expect if you try the "I'm inside I'm not opening the door" strategy. Like you can see from the end of the video, the cops didn't really have any ability to charge them with anything as long as they exercised their shut the fuck up skills (which, to their credit, they did a great job with). But all it accomplished refusing to open the door was to make the situation a lot more violent before the conversation with the cops happened where they refused to say anything.

    I think, probably, the homeowners were correct that the situation wasn't that big a deal in the first place. But, they made a pretty serious mistake by listening to your brand of TikTok law and getting their door destroyed and getting arrested as a result, instead of just walking outside and having the conversation pre-handcuffs.

  • The people who are actual expat Russians, I kind of get it. I don't look at them as maliciously intended for the most part. It is a hard thing to grow up in a whole family / society / system / government, and then get out into the wider world and learn your whole people are looked at as big pieces of shit villains to almost everyone. It's not his or his family's fault where they were born. And I assume they're not pieces of shit on a personal level or anything. So 100% I can understand the temptation to start doubling down or "fighting back" to stand up for the honor of your people. Especially when the governments doing the dis-honoring are, themselves, kind of pieces of shit on the world stage also in various provable ways.

    Also, I don't think the Russian educational system is real real good as far as history and political science, in some specific ways that just add more additional pieces to the cognitive dissonance puzzle. (I've heard people quote particular nuggets of disinformation to me as sort of "something everyone knows" in a way that makes me think maybe they picked it up from school and just have never re-examined it since.)

    I think it's just a lot to overcome and a strong temptation to slot into a mindset where actually you and your family are the good guys, after all.

  • I was searching for some nonsense on .ml to post, and I stumbled sort of unintentionally onto a hilarious history of Yogthos's summary of the Ukraine situation.

    First, in early 2022, he was insisting that they will not invade and it's all just Western lies. Then, he said it wasn't really an invasion, they just wanted to protect some Russian speakers in the east and maybe a little regime change. Then he said that this invasion was going great, going to achieve all its goals soon, and it was all the totally predictable result of the West's actions as all serious scholars knew. He really emphasized that all of us were going to see what a horrible thing we had had done to Russia (?) when because Russia refused to deal with us anymore, everything became triple the cost here and civil unrest in the streets, since we wouldn't be able to buy from Russia anymore.

    Then, after a while, he dropped both of those ideas and just kept repeating that it was all the West's fault that it came to this horrible thing, and he just cares so much about Ukraine that he wants the West to give Russia everything it wants so it can end. After all, he has family in Ukraine.

    0% making any of this up. I thought about putting together a little post for MOG showing the progression, but my motivation for these things is waning... I feel like people have got the message at this point as to what he's about lol.

  • Well that was a dumb question then, just post the source if you have one and we’ll go from there

    Where will we go from there?

    Would it develop once we get there, perhaps, that anything negative about the CCP automatically gets discounted as "biased" or not "reliable" and you would retreat into a landscape where you'll accept any reliable source, anything at all that isn't corrupted, but where you refuse under any circumstances to identify what those sources could look like, or which of them seem to have established a pretty solid track record of being grounded in reality, because of what unpleasant truths might be revealed from the same sources you had admitted might have something relevant to say?

    Like I say, this isn't my first time having this conversation lol. I knew in advance that you would refuse to admit what might be reliable sources on my side, keeping the power and privilege solely for yourself to determine what is a legitimate source and making your arguments on that unequal playing field and only there. As soon as you admit that something might be factual or trustworthy that doesn't correspond with your preexisting biases, the whole game falls apart.

    Based on the sub, the post, my first comment, the content of your reply and your unironic use of tankie I assumed you have anti-PRC bias, but if I’m wrong I’m wrong

    Okay, so you don't know what I believe, or where I got my ideas. Apology accepted. Progress! Try not to come out of the gate with wild haymaker strawmen in the future, it'll make your conversations a lot more two-sided (although without admitting that someone else might be able to point to real facts you don't like because they contain "bias," it'll still be pretty limited how far it will go).

    It was a legitimate protest that was taken over by foreign influence (CIA) and enflamed to the point where people began murdering unarmed PLA soldiers.

    Oh, wow. Murder. Well, we can't have that. That is terrible. Of course,

    I don’t agree with what some soldiers then did and its terrible that innocent people died.

    Oh, wow. Innocent people died. Passive voice. What a fucking tragedy. Of course no one wants that kind of thing to happen.

    You gotta get a desk at the NYT helping cover Gaza, I think they'd really appreciate your self-reflection and accountability on this topic.

    It’s something the PRC has expressed regret about and is working to move past it with it’s people. You won’t find that kind of self-reflection and accountability in the West.

    Oh, wow. Where did they issue their public statement of regret and self-reflection about it? I must have missed their clear expression of responsibility for the killings.

  • I’ve answered your questions and provided multiple sources I find reliable in this thread.

    Not really. You provided your argument, but you steadfastly have refused to identify any source that you would accept as valid if I used it as part of my argument. This matches my previous experience with y'all: The lecture is only ever allowed to go in one direction.

    I would be with you but honestly since you decide to believe the CIA propaganda

    Lol

    Okay. You seem very sure of what I believe and where I got the ideas. So tell me: What do I think happened in Tienanmen Square?

    I mean, you don't have to answer, but this style of argumentation (where you tell me all about what I believe, instead of listening to me telling you what I believe) is also very very common with y'all. It makes it more or less impossible to make progress with the conversation in any non-circular fashion.

    The Myth of Tiananmen

    You know what? Fine. Let me take a look at this.

    The Chinese government estimates more than 300 fatalities. Western estimates are somewhat higher. Many victims were shot by soldiers on stretches of Changan Jie, the Avenue of Eternal Peace, about a mile west of the square, and in scattered confrontations in other parts of the city, where, it should be added, a few soldiers were beaten or burned to death by angry workers.

    Black and Munro say “what took place was the slaughter not of students but of ordinary workers and residents — precisely the target that the Chinese government had intended.” They argue that the government was out to suppress a rebellion of workers, who were much more numerous and had much more to be angry about than the students. This was the larger story that most of us overlooked or underplayed.

    Er

    This is your argument for why the PRC isn't as bad as portrayed in Western media? They responded to an anti-government demonstration by killing at least 300 people? And the most relevant thing is that it didn't happen inside the square, but elsewhere?

    Let's back up a bit. In addition to telling me what I believe happened in the square, can you tell me what you believe happened? Do you think this CJR article you sent me is generally accurate?

  • The mild headline is really underselling how perfect this video is

  • Deleted

    Permanently Deleted

    Jump
  • Almost anyone in that "Twitch Streamer" form factor is going to be absolute trash as far as learning about the world and politics / history, for the simple reason that if they actually did effectively advocate for how to see things and what to do about it, they would get removed (as Jon Stewart did from Apple TV for example).

    Hasan in particular has a habit of starting with the conclusion or the "correct" ideology, and then bending the facts to fit that narrative he preemptively adopted. He also viciously attacks anyone who ever disagrees with him even very mildly, which isn't a real good thought pattern for him to model for his viewers.

    I have some recommendations for alternatives (Al Jazeera being first on the list) as far as news sources to consume if you actually do want to be kept up to date on what's going on and relevant left-leaning reactions to the world, but I'm not sure about quoting the list because IDK how likely my comment is to be removed if it has some wrongthink in it. Let me know if you want a DM of the list or anything.

  • Great. So your criteria include a little bit more than just "sources that don't advance Western imperialism." Can you give some examples? Maybe, like, a couple of academic sources, and a couple of journalistic ones?

    (Like I said, I've had this conversation before, more than once. I'm well aware of why you are so reluctant to give a straight answer to this simple question. I'm curious whether you are aware of why you aren't able to give a straight answer...)

  • All of that, I agree with. It's fine. In the same way, I certainly believe that maga.place should be permitted to exist.

    My point was that implicitly asking people to give "consideration" in the way that you did, is asking that some level of respect be granted to people who are giving none in return. It's the paradox of tolerance. It's okay to shun people who are making excuses and apologetics for literal mass murder, even to laugh at them for balling up their fists and shutting their eyes tight, and insisting that you are the one who is jingoistic, hostile, counterfactual, unreasonable, and all that, if you aren't fans of the same mass murderers they are.

  • Actually, follow-up question: Does it include Noam Chomsky?

  • "Don't you dare disagree with me, or I'll get really hostile and ban you" doesn't demand consideration or respect.

  • I won't claim to know objectively, although I roughly agree with a lot of the theories people are offering in other comments. One thing to add: The lack of critical thinking ability, I think, is crucial in letting this stuff develop. I think a lot of what's going on there is just conversations between people who just all make decisions based on emotion (how well what's being said "resonates" with them, how confidently it's presented, how it lets them be part of an "in-group" which then gives them a feeling of belonging, etc) instead of because they have the tools to be able to evaluate the arguments and have decided they believe in them. That's why it is entirely unconvincing to put arguments in front of them. They simply don't care to evaluate them and they don't have the tools if they did want to. It's just not how they operate.

    I saw an extremely revelatory post on lemmy.ml on some kind of math principle with an objectively accurate answer (with a pretty straightforward proof of that answer included), and the comments were full of people presenting the wrong answer and arguing why, using exactly the same super-confident presentation and style of "resonant but empty" argumentation that they use when they talk about politics.

    And I thought, oh. Makes sense. They just like sounding like they know what they're talking about, and everyone else is the stupids. That's how they interact. It's not really new, there have always been political theories that don't make a ton of sense with wide communities of people who fall in love with them anyway. It's just on the internet now, and so it's easier for them to find each other and self-select themselves into little communities where critical analysis on the topic is actively attacked if it ever rears its head.

  • What sources, to you, are reliable?

    Basically sources that don’t advance Western imperialism.

    Cool! That was unexpectedly broad. So just to be specific, is Al Jazeera included in that?

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